But what i'm saying about the kid is that if they are born in america, they are not a North Korean citizen, therefore they may not be allowed into North Korea. Where will they go? What if the family is escaping from persecution? You surely can't just send them back.

What makes you deserve american citizenship more than then? Many people living in america have come from bad backgrounds, and have gone to america to escape them and start again. I'm sure there is a story behind the reason your in america right now. What right do you have to deny someone who is escaping persecution?





Can't afford? America is in a better situation than most countries to start with. Secondly, needless wars in the middle east are wasting valuable resources and the war has also displaced many people within the middle east who now are looking for a new home, many of which head to countries such as america.

Also, america needs more young people like most western countries which are actually suffering from falling fertility rates. The problem is that people are living longer and having less children, leading to an ageing population and if there are not enough younger people in working, then they wont be able to support them.

Google - public data

America currently has a fertility rate of 2.1 which is actually the replacement level of fertility. If you extrapolate the information, you can see the america is just managing to stay above since 1990 which is thanks to immigration. Now the problem with you stopping "illegal" children is that the fertility rate will drop
Sub-replacement fertility - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You can see on the chart to the right on wikipedia page above, the hispanic population plays a vital role. These arizona laws seem to be aimed at the hispanic populations. Latino's are the main minority group within the state and make up somewhere near 30% and i feel this is a racial law trying to disciminate against them.

Now you might not realise that a below replacement level fertility rate is dangerous and can actually cause a lot of problems for the american economy seeing that you seem to care about its state to much at the moment. surely if you cared about the future of the economy, you'd cut other spendign areas so as to protect areas to cater for the children?

lol im pretty sure people would much rather a drop in fertility rate then it being raised exponentially by mexicans

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Originally Posted by DR FUH Q MAN esquire With the vigor of your words this is clearly more than an opinion on the subject.. What's REALLY behind your speech, Sly?

Behind my speech? I've witnessed first-hand all too many times the negative effects of illegal immigration. From them undercutting job estimates and doing a piss-poor job at that (and job estimates that are high by the legal citizen so that he/she can afford to have a few extra dollars after rent and bills to buy food for the family); to the crime they participate in (most of our drugs and weapons come over the border now, and are in the favor of the Hispanic and Latino communities, no longer the black and whites), where they commit common traffic violations or shoplift and an officer cant do anything with them because immigration won't do anything and it's too much effort to file an illegal into our system, because they're ILLEGAL; to the immigrants who raise tax dollars by putting their illegal child into public schools and the parents don't fall under any of the payment and tax plans, so their children get free-schooling whereas legals pay out of the ass. We all deal with this problem, yet nobody stands up and asks questions or refuses to have their rights revoked over the fact that the government has to use you to help them pay the difference the illegals are causing us. The price of goods will continue to skyrocket so long as there are more and more illegals in our country, because we can't meet the excessive demand as easily as we think - not to mention, farming has taken a huge hit because big business would rather save themselves money they would be spending on workman's comp. and healthcare for those American farmers, because these illegals don't qualify for that shit and they take less money (more after the fact that they don't have to pay taxes) to do the work. BTW, this holds true for illegal immigrants of any nationality, but the problem just so happens to be worst coming out of Mexico and South America.

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Originally Posted by Lostnbroken But what i'm saying about the kid is that if they are born in america, they are not a North Korean citizen, therefore they may not be allowed into North Korea. Where will they go? What if the family is escaping from persecution? You surely can't just send them back. What makes you deserve american citizenship more than then? Many people living in america have come from bad backgrounds, and have gone to america to escape them and start again. I'm sure there is a story behind the reason your in america right now. What right do you have to deny someone who is escaping persecution?

What I'm saying is, that kid can actually be born by parents who are applying for citizenship - not by parents who walk across the border at night and never once think of getting citizenship because they're better off financially without it and hurting the rest of the country economically. And again, you're not going to leave North Korea to the United States without flying out. You're going to have to land on our soil at an airport where you'll go through border patrol and customs. And I'm sure if somehow they failed to qualify for citizenship, South Korea would be more than happy to accept them into their community to keep them removed from the communist quarry that is the North.

Hell, even if you want to turn the parents into citizens when their child is born here... if they fuck up and can't apply themselves, toss 'em. If you wanna keep the kid, go ahead - but make sure that little fucker doesn't mess up, otherwise toss him as well.

And I agree, many people in America have come from bad backgrounds. My father's side of the family - Cherokee natives and British who came over and fought for the United States in the Revolutionary War. My mother's side of the family, European settlers who boated their way across the Atlantic and walked through customs in New York applying for citizenship and suffered great prejudice on their journey to find work in a country that didn't want to accept the Irish, Polish, and whatever else they were. My family was born to America the way they were given the right to by the Constitution - not immigrating illegally and not making the effort to become legal citizens.

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Originally Posted by Lostnbroken Can't afford? America is in a better situation than most countries to start with. Secondly, needless wars in the middle east are wasting valuable resources and the war has also displaced many people within the middle east who now are looking for a new home, many of which head to countries such as america.

A lower fertility rate only hurts the economy when the fertility rate is risen by illegals who don't have to pay taxes like the rest of us. Most couples refuse to have more children because THEIR tax rates raise higher than they should to cover the illegals, whereas the illegals don't have to pay those taxes. And America is in a SHITTY situation. We're not a third-world country, but we're as fucked as can possibly be when it comes to the rest of the "well-off" world.

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Originally Posted by Shogun lol im pretty sure people would much rather a drop in fertility rate then it being raised exponentially by mexicans

LOL win.





And TBK - it's not racial profiling at all. When ANYONE is stopped by the police for ANYTHING... they're asked for their ID. When an illegal (Mexican, Kenyan, German, Korean, Iranian) is stopped and cannot provide a Visa, Green Card, ID, etc. they're taken to immigration. I carry my ID everywhere - having been stopped by police enough when I was younger simply for fitting a description. When you travel abroad, you're supposed to have your passport with you AT ALL TIMES. If you don't, they're not going to take you where you say you left it, they're going to take you to the American Embassy and have them either work it out via you being able to recall everything on your file, or they're going to work out a way to send you back to the States.

This law is no different. If you're stopped, and don't have ID or citizenship - you're going to be questioned, and if your shit doesn't add up - you're going to be deported.

And im pretty sure that Russia and Japan are trying to combat falling fertility rates. Once it falls below a certain level, the country is gonna age quickly and before you know it old people will out number young people. People of working age will be a minority, US productivity will fall and the resultant affects will be a fall in GDP.

The undercutting of job estimates can be benefical. Too many americans think they deserve all these rights in life. They want to have wage increases above inflation rate etc...That just creates more inflation and reduces the competitiveness of US export market. If you wanna sort out your economy and sort out your balance of payments, increasing your exports will help. The fact they they will work for lower wages and they will take up the jobs most american think they are too good for then i don't see no problem. Unless your goal in life is for a job cutting lawn? I use the stereotype because this seems to be your outlook on life.

American's wages are too high to actually farm...Farmers in the US recieve huge subsidies to make them more price competitive and actually undercut the prices of countries who rely on agriculture. Now this sounds like what you are saying except on an international basis. America has been taking agricultural jobs from people abroad and leaving them with little to no income. America's protectionist measures is another reason why people need to emigrate to america.


I was using North Korea because america has a very anti communist attitude and anti north korean attitude. If someone from mexico comes to america, the first country they touch is america. You seem happy to send north koreans to south korea. When someone is in true desperation, you expect them to just live with it or escape?

See now, my family come from america and a lot of my family left Ireland during the famine for america. I see this as an almost similar situation. You said how your mothers side of your family applied for citizenship when they arrived meaning they were technicaly illegal themselves. How can americans see themselves as more superior and decide that because someone's parents were illegal they can't stay. Many people have benefited from american citizenship and have contributed to the country. I really can't see how you can say no and be so judgemental. these arguments you are using against them sounds exactly the same as those used against the irish.




Don't let the numbers fool you. America's situation sounds worse when they use numbers like trillions but when you compare the figures per capita or as a percentage of GDP per head figures come out differently

List of countries by current account balance as a percentage of GDP - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The UK has a worse current account than the USA, so does Greece, Ireland, Spain, Australia and Portugal. It shows how much money is leaving the country and how much is entering it.

List of countries by public debt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Again the Uk, Ireland, Greece, Italy and Japan have worse public debts than america. So if you are going to compare america to "well-off" countries, first adjust figures for per capita or to a percentage of GDP.

haha, yeah... it's not racial profiling at all.

lord flywalker is just upset with the increased rate of mexicans entering the border. i got an idea for you....why dont you just move to the border and try to stop all the mexicans from crossing. good luck!! lol

i say we just gather all the mexicans into death camps

I thought the immigration laws in arizona was stop in oncoming flow of drugs and criminals from mexico.. denying children born in this country to illegals does not have anything to do with drugs and criminals..

We don't get this bent outta shape when Canadians move here & stay for years.

canadians dont live by the train tracks or stab you when they get your sister pregnant and try to leave town